Józef Piłsudski

Interview with correspondent from The Times

(9 February 1920)

On 29 January 1920, the Bolsheviks renewed their proposal of 22 December 1919 to begin peace negotiations with Poland. The question of how Poland would respond to those overtures was of interest for the European public, especially that two currents were competing in Europe at the time: one advocating further war against Bolshevik Russia, and the other one looking for a modus vivendi with it.

Hence Lumby, a correspondent of The Times London daily, asked whether Poland would not yield to Bolshevik propaganda were peace to be declared, and would it be able to withstand Bolshevik military pressure in the event of further war.

Piłsudski’s replies were published in The Times on 14 February 1920 without authorisation as an interview dated “Warsaw, 9 February”.

Piłsudski’s views on the military situation and on the Bolshevik peace proposal were communicated last Friday (6 February) to the Military and Foreign Affairs Parliamentary Committees at a secret meeting.1 Therefore he declined to comment further on the subject.

I asked what measures would be taken to stave off Bolshevik propaganda if peace were to be signed. He answered:

• I do not think the Bolsheviks’ propaganda poses a threat to those who know them. Our people have seen Bolshevism up close since the Russian Revolution and are aware of what it means. Our workers know that workers in Russia have no freedom and are not satisfied with the Soviet rule.

• So, General, do you think that the socialist programme proclaimed by the Bolsheviks will be less successful in deceiving socialists and the working class in Poland than it is in Great Britain, France and Italy?

• No, this is not exactly what I would like to say, but I think that the methods introduced under the socialist system in Russia (namely the policy of terror and the utter destruction of the existing social system) are unthinkable in any civilised country. Please ask British socialists if they would like to ask Lenin and Zinoviev to reshape their government in the Bolshevik image. I think they would say “no” to that. Our socialists would do likewise, but there is a danger that the Bolsheviks might try to come here to rearrange our government without being invited.

• In other words, are you not afraid of Bolshevism in peacetime?

The General smiled:

• My personal opinion is of almost no importance here, since I am not a man to be easily scared.

• So what would be the Bolsheviks’ chances in a war? Are you not more afraid of their army, General?

• No, these are terrible soldiers after all! The Polish soldier is much better. We have always beaten them. Why should I be afraid of them?

• Still, the argument of their great power cannot be ignored. Let us suppose that Trotsky can concentrate 200,000 soldiers in Vitebsk, and you, General, can only muster 100,000, what then?

The General replied resolutely:

• If the Bolsheviks were to succeed, this would be a very limited victory indeed and the matter would be dealt with very quickly. In my opinion, it is impossible for Poland to lose this war. Poland cannot lose the war.

• General, do you think that Bolsheviks intend to launch an offensive against the Polish front?

• Definitely. They are amassing more forces each day and preparing to attack.

• This is difficult to reconcile with the tone of their peace note, which sounds very conciliatory. General, do you think that their proposal was sincere?

• Is it even possible to be sincere in politics? They must have an alternative ready in case their proposal is rejected. And they are right to sue for peace. Their strength is running out and their people want peace. People there believe, as we do, that it is the war that is causing high prices and food shortages. When they get peace, they will find that prices continue to rise, since Russia will need many things from abroad and will have to find money to purchase them. However, the people’s yearning for peace in an issue that the Bolshevik leaders will have to contend with. I am telling you that the present moment is a critical one for the Soviet government.

I asked the General whether he thought that the Russian revolution had already reached its final stage and produced the form of government that best suited the Russian people.

• From the psychological point of view, people will say that the revolution has lost its momentum and that its initiators are now looking for something else to replace it.

• Do you think that imperialism will deliver that something else and that the Russian revolution will give rise to a Napoleon Bonaparte?

• Not in the least. The conditions that once favoured Napoleon are no longer here. Revolutionary France defeated its neighbours everywhere, and this fuelled the nation’s enthusiasm for war. Napoleon used that national enthusiasm to further his own goals. Nothing like that is present in Russia today. The Russian revolutionaries’ only victories were won against their compatriots. Everyone else beat them soundly. Victories in a civil war always leave a scar in the victorious army’s heart; they never stir enthusiasm.

Red Armies are discouraged by the war and weary of it, and they have no such material as Napoleon’s grenadiers at their disposal. The Bolsheviks are loudly claiming that their system is invincible, but these words do not have a basis in facts. All these proclamations are an empty shell with a hard surface, but nothing inside.